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Matt and Sean talk about epic threats and epic beginnings in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’, Season 3, Episode 10, “New Life and New Civilizations”
Matt and Sean talk about epic threats and epic beginnings in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’, Season 3, Episode 10, “New Life and New Civilizations”
- (00:00) - - Intro
- (01:58) - - Viewer Feedback
- (02:55) - - Today's Episode
- (04:40) - - This Time in History
- (07:03) - - Episode Discussion
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Creators and Guests
What is Trek In Time?
Join Sean and Matt as they rewatch all of Star Trek in order and in historical context.
Sean Ferrell: In this episode of Trek in Time, we're talking about making and losing friends. Welcome, everybody, to Trek in Time. This is episode 202. 202. Good Lord. Anyway, this is the podcast that takes a look at Star Trek in chronological stardate order. And we also take a look at the world at the time of original broadcast. And what started off with us watching Enterprise moving through Discovery, getting into Strange New Worlds, and then jumping into the original series. Well, it's taken a pause recently because, yes, you guessed it, we're talking about Season 3, Episode 10 of Strange New Worlds. We've paused the original series. We've gone back to Strange New Worlds because of the new season. And here we are at the final episode of season three. It felt like it took us a long time to get to season three, and then suddenly we blink. And has it really already been 10 weeks?
Matt Ferrell: I know.
Sean Ferrell: I find myself shocked. But we're gonna talk about new life and new civilizations. This is the episode that just dropped today, September 11, 2025. Welcome, everybody, to Trek in Time. As usual, I'm Sean Ferrell. I'm a writer. I write some sci fi. I write some horror. I write some stuff for kids. I try not to write horror for kids, but. Well, I guess my first picture book kind of is a horror story. But anyways, Sean, it kind of is. Oops. Anyway, with me, as always, is my brother Matt from Undecided with Matt Ferrell, which takes a look at emerging tech and it's impacting our lives. And, Matt, how are you today?
Matt Ferrell: I'm doing great. Looking forward to talking about Trek.
Sean Ferrell: That wraps it up, I guess. So here we go. We're ready to do it. We're not wasting any time. This is it. We're going to talk about Trek. Before we get into our new episodes, we always like to take a look at the mailbag and what you had to say about the previous episode. But guess what, everybody?
Matt Ferrell: We can't.
Sean Ferrell: Can't. Do you want to know why, everybody? I'm waiting for everybody to say yes. Say yes.
Matt Ferrell: Yes.
Sean Ferrell: Yes. Thank you. We are recording this off of our normal schedule because Matt is. Well, he's not going to be available at our normal time, which means we are recording this before what you would consider our last episode was released. So you though you did comment on our last episode, did not comment on our last episode at a time when we could see said comment. I hope you all followed me. I think I got lost partway through that. Anyway, so fast forward toodly toodly toodlee to what is that noise. What are those flashing lights? Why, it's the reed alert. It's time for Matt to tackle the, I assume AI generated description. Take it away, Matt.
Matt Ferrell: This is very AI generated, so strap yourself in. In New Life and New Civilizations, the season three finale of Star Trek Strange New Worlds, the Enterprise crew pursues the ancient Vezda entity that has possessed Ensign Gamble to the planet Skygowan, where the Vezda is worshipped as a God. As the crew races to prevent the Vezda from freeing its kind and unleashing havoc across the galaxy, Captain Marie Batel's unique, genetically altered physiology is revealed to be the key to imprisoning the threat, transforming her into a new eternal warden known as the Beholder. The episode culminates in Batel's heartbreaking farewell to Pike as she sacrifices her future for the galaxy's safety, while the crew looks to new adventures with hope and unity.
Sean Ferrell: That's not so bad. I think it captures all the moments. So, as I mentioned, Season 3, Episode 10, the 30th overall, released on September 11, 2025, this is directed by Maja Vrvilo and written by Dana Horgan and Davy Perez. The episode includes all the usual stars, Anson Mount, Ethan Peck, Jess Bush, Christina Chong, Celia Rose Gooding, Melissa Navia, Babs Olusanmokun, Rebecca Romijn and Martin Quinn. And we also see Carol Kane as Pelia, Paul Wesley as James T. Kirk, and Melanie Scrofano as Marjorie as Marie Batel. What was the time that this was released like? Well, here we are, Matt. We're still sitting in today, so I'm talking about today, today. What song is everybody singing along to? Yes, you guessed it. It's been here for three weeks and it's continuing to hold on. That song is of course Tears by Sabrina Carpenter with the aforementioned strange album cover that reminds me too much of Spinal Tap. Take it away, Matt, with a rendition of Tears. Always exciting to hear you, the vibrato is out of this world. And at the box office. We have a new entry into the top films this week, but it's not a new entry, it's an old entry. How are we to decipher this? We have amongst the top films in theaters. Weapons continues to do very well. It is a terrific film that both Matt and I would recommend everybody do. Go see it and see it in the theaters. There is something about the collective experience that really makes this movie fun. Also in the top three, Caught Stealing, which is a movie that opened in August 29, 2025 with Austin Butler. But the new entry, well It's a little movie called Jaws. I wonder if it's got any teeth.
Matt Ferrell: Oh, Sean.
Sean Ferrell: You knew I was going to say something stupid. Yeah, let's not pretend you didn't know that. And among streaming services, some of the more popular programs that are currently available right now, at the top of the list, The Paper. We talked about this last week. This takes place in the same universe as the Office and it is from the same people as the Office. Also, a new release is Wednesday, Doing well. And a TV show starring Mark Ruffalo called Task, which is on HBO Max. And in the news on this day, September 11, 2025. Of course, the news is overwhelmingly dominated by the news of the shooting of Charlie Kirk. It is a tense and hard era to live in right now for anybody who is watching this in the Wayback Machine, where they're in a future year looking back and enjoying visiting episodes like this that took place years earlier. I hope things are better. On now, to our discussion about this episode. Matt, last week I believe I started off. So why don't we jump in in with you starting us off, but I'm going to give you a little bit of an easy in to the conversation.
Matt Ferrell: All right.
Sean Ferrell I just wanted you to talk about the Doctor who references in this season, in particular this episode.
Matt Ferrell: What? I didn't see any, so you can take it.
Sean Ferrell All right I'm surprised. We talked previously. The episode where the Enterprise got stuck inside the scavenger, the giant ship that looked like a giant sea serpent that swallowed it whole. And inside, the producers of the show had planted a tiny little TARDIS hanging out next to the nacelle of the Enterprise as a little nod to Doctor who. And we talked about that previously. Well, in this episode, maybe you missed it because it was hard to actually understand her. I had to rewatch the scene three times, the final time with closed captioning in order to make sure I was hearing what I thought I heard. Pelia, at the Captain's dinner party says to Captain Pike, remind me to tell you about the time traveling Doctor I travelled with for a while.
Matt Ferrell: That went right by me because I didn't pick it up and I was just. I just kept going, oh, my gosh, that's funny.
Sean Ferrell She just rattles it off and says, ugh, you just remind me to tell you about this time traveling Doctor I spent some time with once and I was left with, did I just hear what I think I heard? Rewound and then rewound again and then finished the episode and then went back to that Scene with closed captioning and then was like, yeah, yes, that is in fact what she said.
Matt Ferrell: Oh, my gosh.
Sean Ferrell From all reports, there is genuine interest on the part of producers of both programs to straight up make a crossover happen. So very interesting. Yeah, Pelia is a great choice. I can think of a number of different characters.
Matt Ferrell: She would fit in perfectly with Doctor who.
Sean Ferrell She would fit in perfectly in Doctor who as like if she's the guest star. And I also know Will Wheaton doesn't do a whole lot of acting anymore, but I couldn't help but think, I think he'd jump at the chance with his with Wesley's. We haven't talked about Picard and we won't talk about Picard for probably 12 years. But he's doing a lot of jumping about. Yeah, he's doing. He's doing some time jumping stuff. Stuff. So we'll talk about that at some point in the future. All right, so we've gotten that out of the way. So let's now take a step back. And now I'm going to invite you yet again to talk about this episode. Just in general overall terms. How did this episode strike you?
Matt Ferrell: So overall, like we talked about last week, you and I both really enjoyed the Enemy Mine aspect of last week's and this week's. I wasn't disappointed. But this was not. I don't think this was a great finale to the season. It felt kind of weak in certain areas. It felt like it was trying to do too much. And it felt like the things that would have been more impactful were shortchanged. And in the description I read Marie Batel's, there's a sequence that happens where a lifetime is experienced between her and Pike. Growing old together, having children, having a life, a life they're not going to have. And it is incredibly moving. Like, it was like a gut punch by the end of it. I was like, oh, wow. But at the end of it, though, I was also angry of like, that could have been the entire episode. Like, they could have very quickly set up the thing about what she is and what she turns into and what the whole, how all the timey wimey this stuff comes together, which I thought was really cool. They did a good job setting it up over the season. So, like they built this up over the entire season and they're paying it off. And I was like, thank you. But they could have done that really quickly and then had instead of like a 10 minute sequence, it's a 30 minute sequence. And I keep bringing this episode up, Sean, because obviously I love it. And Inner freaking Light from Next Generation. It's an entire episode of Picard living a life on a planet, and it's bookended with a little stuff on the ship of like, how can we help him? Picard's unconscious. Nothing we can do. But most of the episode is in Picard's head. They could have done the same thing here, and it would have had such punch at the end with what she does. I don't know why they shortchanged it the way they did.
And part of the things they put into the episode that I think really undercut it were the things with, I hate to say this, Spock and Kirk. There's a lot of fan service there that I enjoyed as a Trekkie, but it felt like a distraction that if you cut it from the script, you wouldn't miss it at all. And we can get into specifics later. There's one thing that happens that made me go, you just completely shortchanged their entire friendship. And I'm curious to see what you say about that.
Sean Ferrell: Interesting.
Matt Ferrell: But in short I enjoyed the episode. I did like some of the payoffs. I liked the plots that they tied up and the way they ended it with like, we're going off gallivanting into the galaxy again. Nice hopeful tone going out at the end. Had no problem with that. It was just there were some choices made that I think really kind of cut the legs out from underneath it.
Sean Ferrell: I agree with a lot of specific things that you said. I'm curious to find out more about the Kirk Spock relationship that you. What you saw there that you didn't enjoy. I think the best word to describe this episode for me is uneven, and I feel like it's trying to do too much. It felt at times like they were having three episodes at once and they couldn't decide which one they wanted it to be. That they want it to be the culmination of the prisoned, the imprisoned alien escapees storyline. Did they want it to be that? Did they want it to be the Inner Light episode? Did they want it to be about the gelling of Kirk and Spock and the kind of Star Trek-y shenanigans of we gotta fire these two phasers at exactly the same time? Like all those elements, I understand they were all part of the same story, but they very often didn't feel like they were part of the same story. It felt like there were conflicting attentions given. And to take each of those separately, I agree with you partially. I feel like, for me, the escape from the prison felt like it could have been and maybe should have been a direct second part to the previous episode. Like, just tell that story. And some of that story I found kind of compelling. Like, oh, that guy managed to use the medical transporter to effectively create a duplicate of himself and beam himself across the galaxy in a way that they couldn't figure out. I liked that. That was a cool element. I liked using the methodology of causes and effects, not following in that order, as a big picture element of why is all this happening in this way? How can this be possible? Like, well, she's now becoming the guardian now of the prison so that she will be the guardian in the past.
Matt Ferrell: I love that explanation. I love that explanation of destiny. It's like, that is destiny. It's because it's time going in reverse. It was like, that was a brilliant way to kind of set that up. I loved it.
Sean Ferrell Yeah, yeah. The inner light aspects, I thought. I agree with you. I would have been fine with longer time spent there, and it would have been. I mean, they do give you enough to know what a longer one would have been. So maybe there is something about, like, it's okay that it was only 10 minutes of the episode because it does give you so much. And the acting from Anson Mount and from the actress playing Patel is so strong in that that you get those nice moments of Melanie Scrofano doing a really nice job with. She is conscious of what is happening.
Matt Ferrell: But enjoying the knock on the door that keeps happening.
Sean Ferrell And as she reaches the point of just like, oh, ignore that knocking. It's no big deal. When you realize, like, oh, she knows what's happening and she's owning it. And they keep showing the flash of the meteorite in the sky, and she looks out and says, it's early. And when he sees it from the ship later and recognizes she was timeless in that moment, it's very beautiful. It's a lovely. It's a lovely sequence, especially since they tied it in. It wasn't just her wish fulfillment, it was his as well. And that was powerful because you get him in those moments saying, I know I'm going off on this mission and this is going to be it for me. This is my end. Like, that moment was gripping.
Matt Ferrell: I was choking up because it was like. It's like the most tragic story. It's like, here's this tragic love story, and then Pike is just screwed. It's like he's losing the love of his life. And we know he's about to go off. And he's got a dog playing with.
Sean Ferrell The dog right there. And he's just like, I didn't realize I would have feel like I had so much left to live for.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah.
Sean Ferrell And so for him in that moment, I'm like, this is. This is his wish fulfillment. This is his life changing experience. This is him having that as much as it is her. Which makes the moment when he enters the bridge at the very end really resonate because he walks in and it's like, this has to be enough. Yeah, this is it. I got that. And it wasn't real, but this is so this is my family. And he looks around the bridge and I was like, holy cow, they're hitting me. Like, gut punch, gut punch, gut punch, uppercut. And it's just like this moment of like, wow, that's really hitting. But does it fit with everything else in the episode? And it really doesn't. Because some of the stuff that stood out as being like a little janky was. I'm sorry, the actor who was playing Ensign Gamble, like that is not con level threat. That is not like there was nothing about that. And it was. Because it wasn't written to be that.
Matt Ferrell: No, it wasn’t.
Sean Ferrell He was left having to parade around like he was some sort of stuff semi godlike figure that was so full of menace. And all we're given is people stabbing themselves in the eyes. And that wasn't enough. There wasn't enough there to say, like, this is legitimately existential danger. The Borg showed up, took pieces of the Enterprise, literally drilled what looked like taking an ore sample out of the hall. And. And that's effectively all they really did the very first time the Borg were introduced. And you left that episode going like, Q is saying to Picard, like, you have no idea what is out here. You are not ready for what is out here. And I recently just saw a whole like somebody online saying like, I don't understand the causality is this you are your own grandfather. Because Q introduces them to the Borg who then come to Earth and then they go back in time. And the time traveling Borg are then found by Enterprise and the Borg then send a signal about where Earth is. So what's happening here? And I'm like, the solution to all of that is Q, who is timeless, is basically saying like, I know I need to prep you for this. So when I'm saying to Picard, you're not ready for this, I'm actually helping him get ready for this. That's why I'm saying it. This Villain has a timeless quality. Cause doesn't follow effect. And there's nothing about his threat or their threat that uses that in an interesting way. No, they are moving from cause to affect the way we all are. She's the only one who understands, like, I can end this because I have always already been that, and they don't get that. But they should have the cause effect. War should have felt like an argument in reverse. It should have felt different. He should have been more compelling. He should have said something along the lines of, you can do this to me now because I know what I've already done in the future.
Like, he could have said something that could have made those space fishy things seem like they could be a future threat in a really cool way. Instead. It just felt a little bit like we talked about this previously. It felt a little bit like Event Horizon, where it was just kind of like, I found a universe of madness. And I'm like, that's not enough. You can't just say, like, oh, this is crazy to make me feel like it's crazy.
Matt Ferrell: It was. It felt like his whole plotline just felt like an excuse to have something to hang the main plot points off of.
Sean Ferrell Yes, yes, yes.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, so it was completely short. That's what I meant by, like, cutting the legs out from underneath it. And as you pointed out so well, like, that heartfelt section, it had no relation. Like, this is part of why I didn't like the Kirk Spock stuff. It has no relation to anything else that happens. The only reason that the two ships had to do the synchronized shooting thing was because the writers thought that that was a plot point so that they could shoehorn this Spock Kirk thing in.
Sean Ferrell Right.
Matt Ferrell: It was only there so they could do that stuff. It was utterly meaningless for what actually was going to propel the emotional story forward. It was just. It's fan service. They did that for fan service. They wanted to be plotline with those two, and that's what they came up with. And it felt completely unnecessary. Even though there were aspects of. I enjoyed. It was fun seeing them do the whole synchronization dance and how they're both, like, in sync with each other. I thought that was very clever and cool. It was just out of place for this episode where you could have stripped this out and had two separate episodes like you were talking about before. But the reason I feel like this short changes. We've been paying so much compliments to Strange New Worlds for doing such a great job of building on characters we already know and making them even richer. And one of the things about Spock and Kirk is they are like brothers. They are super close. They are the best of friends. We know how strong their relationship is. How do they get there? Okay, let's in one episode cheat and hit a fast forward button and say they are now button push, best buddies and know each other backwards and forwards because of this mind meld. And I was like, screw you. Say, I want to see the relationship build over the next two or three years. I want to see how they become so close together and you just in one mind meld are like, we know each other better than anybody else buddies. And it was like, come on.
That's why I was like, that was so cheap. It was so cheap. And it doesn't mean that you didn't. They could have still done the mind meld. They could have still done the mind meld stuff. But the whole we are going to know each other better than anybody else knows us. That whole aspect of it I thought was such a cheap fast forward button to make them best buddies. That's why I was like disappointed in what they were doing. It's just really rubbed me the wrong way.
Sean Ferrell So let's talk about the fan service stuff then. So like talk about that. I'll get to that in a moment. But some of the other fan service stuff that I did enjoy, I really liked what they did with Scotty in this one.
Matt Ferrell: The captain's table scene was great. It was fun to see him come in his kilt.
Sean Ferrell He shows up in his kilt. And when we see Scotty in the original series and he shows up in his dress uniform, which includes a kilt, that was nice to see the way he talks and is embarrassed by his own brilliance. It's another moment where I'm like, this is adding to the character from the original series in such a beautiful way. I spoke previously about the relationship between him and Kirk when Kirk is basically shits the bed and is not doing a great job of leading and Scotty is leading the charge of like, we gotta get this guy out of here because he's gonna get us all killed. And then by the end of it, Scotty is like, okay, there's something here. I can like work with this guy. But it's almost more of a peer relationship as opposed to being one of a commander and a subordinate. And then we see a follow up episode where Kirk is basically leaning into, yeah, you saved my bacon and you can be my friend. Let's call me Jim. And it's like, he didn't say that to Spock first. He said it to Scotty first. And I'm like, that is cool. That is great. And it's this moment of the familiarity he has with Scotty did something for Scotty in that moment for me. And then here comes this where, in a discussion about the amount of energy produced by the Earth's sun by Pelia, Scotty is basically correcting her to say, like, no, it's actually. Well, yeah, close enough. Because he looks at Spock and realizes he. He doesn't like showing how much he actually knows in front of the Vulcan. Like, there's something about it where he clearly has this kind of, like, sheepish. I don't like talking about how smart I am, and I love that this is like.
Matt Ferrell: It's perfect for that character.
Sean Ferrell It's perfect that. Here comes Scotty, and we know Scotty from the original series. Spock talks to him like he knows Scotty knows his stuff. And it's like, you're Spock. How come you're talking to Scotty like this? And Scotty is always kind of off the cuff of like, oh, we rig it together and Jerry rig it. But in that moment, for me, it looked like he was like, yeah, it's close enough.
Matt Ferrell: But I interpreted that as he sees Spock. He sees Spock recognizing what he's saying, and he realizes, oh, of course Spock already knows this, and he didn't say it because it's not important. Oh, God. I just. Like, I pick. I pictured it as that what was going through his head, not that I'm embarrassed to talk in front of the Vulcan. It was more of him recognizing the Vulcan, who clearly knows this. Kept his mouth shut because it doesn't matter. It's like, I think that's what it was. But on Spock's face, I got what you're talking about. Of Spock's face was kind of like, he really knows his shit. He knows his stuff.
Sean Ferrell Yeah, I read that differently than you did. I like both readings. I like both readings, and I think both can be true. But in that moment, I read it as Spock was just like, this guy really knows his stuff. And he's just like, oh, crap. I don't like people knowing I know my stuff because then they ask things of you. He's clearly the guy at this point in his career, he was just like, I don't know how to recreate these things, and I don't like note keeping, and I don't like keeping an organized space. And I don't like all the regulations of all this. It's all just so much. I'd rather just be left to do my work.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah.
Sean Ferrell And we see a Scotty in the future who's like, he's in charge of engineering. And we know why, but now we know even more why. So I liked that. I liked the back and forth around the transporter and trying to figure that out. I liked the dinner party scene. And as opposed to you, I really liked the mind meld. It for me was, yes, it was a fast forward, but it's a fast forward that I think it earns because we know we are literally just a few years from what the original series was. And the depiction of their relationship in the original series does speak to a far deeper relationship. Because what I think happens is, is the original series, as we know, we've talked about it on this podcast, had two pilots and the second pilot, with Kirk in charge, as opposed to Pike, effectively just wiped the slate clean. And then over time, especially with the creation of these prequel series, it's been reintroduced that Pike was in fact the Captain. And they've reintroduced the idea that Spock operated underneath him. And they've reintroduced all those things. And what that does is, is it removes the assumed history of the original series that the original series had. So you do have to have something. And I thought what we were going to get was little bits and pieces of them meeting each other more and more and then eventually some awkward relationship that I was like, they're really going to have to do something special to get to the point where Kirk and Spock look at each other with absolute, 100% implicit trust. No hesitation. No hesitation whatsoever. We see Spock and Kirk. We know that when Spock says something to Kirk, Kirk has no doubt about its legitimacy.
We know that when Kirk makes a decision, Spock is willing to get in line behind him without second guessing, without pushing back in the way that we see other first officers do in practically every other show that does not happen with the two of them. And I'm like, what are they going to do to get to that moment? You said it was a cheat because it was a fast forward button. I literally, for months now have been thinking, they're going to have to figure out a fast forward button. They're going to have to have an episode where the two of them go through something so spectacularly intimate that it explains how they can have that relationship. So when that moment presented itself here, you said, it didn't float your boat. And I completely understand why your reasons made complete sense. But I legitimately had to pause the show because I got verklempt. I got emotionally. When I reacted to it, I responded very emotionally, strongly to it. I paused and I was just like, holy cow. It makes the depth of their relationship even more than what I could have expected. And this is the last thing I have to say. I immediately jumped to that short film that was released a few months ago, honoring their relationship and showing Kirk in that moment of going and seeing Spock at the end of his life, and the two of them having that silent moment. This, for me, connected to that. And I thought, holy cow. It gives them effectively a kind of common root system that the two of them grow from this moment because they don't meld again in the same way. But it's like to have that grow from this moment I thought was really.
I thought it worked for me in a way that was very, very deeply appreciated by me as a fan of the original series.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, that's a fine interpretation. But part of why I think I had that feeling was the entire episode felt rushed, like they were trying to do too much. And it felt like, especially by the end. You and I have talked about how the show has been renewed for not just one more season, but for two. A purchase was put in for season A, full season four, and I think it's a partial season five. I can't remember.
Sean Ferrell I think it's gonna be six episodes, right? So it's gonna be. They're telling some sort of right wrap up.
Matt Ferrell: I knew going in. They still got two more years to go. That's plenty of time to keep building on that relationship and get it to a place that's going to be like, bam for the original series. And so the fact that they did this, I'm not joking, Sean. At the end of the episode, I was like, that felt like the end of the show.
Sean Ferrell I have a theory.
Matt Ferrell: The way it wrapped, it felt like that. Hold on. I read an interview this morning. It was. Interview. There was. It wasn't Comic Con, but it was a big panel where they had the guy. John Lennon, who plays Kirk, was Paul.
Sean Ferrell Paul Wesley.
Matt Ferrell: Paul Wesley. And they had most of the actors. They had Akiva Goldsman and Henry Myers, who are the showrunners on the panel as well. And in the interview, I can't remember which one of them said it, but they basically said they treat every season like it's going to be the only season. And so when he said that, I was like, that explains why this even Though there's two more seasons coming. They. When they started this season, they didn't know that for sure. So it was like they were going to treat this as if it was. It's their last shot at the apple. Yep. And that, to me, explained that's why they did this, because they were treating this as if this is their only shot to do it right.
And then they also talked about how Akiva Goldsman. I'll just read this short quote. He said, thank you guys for following along with us on this journey. There were certainly sort of stumbling blocks along the way. You know, season three, I'm very happy it's over. Because we had a strike. We sort of had to manage all sort of work on the fly a little bit. I think season four, for me is the best work we've done. Everybody's working at their stride. And then Myers went on to basically build on that. So when I heard that, I was like, oh, they even recognize scene theory was kind of rocky.
Sean Ferrell Yeah. And it's interesting. Contextualizes it in a way that. Yeah, you and I like. It is sometimes tricky to remember that a year ago there were two different strikes going on that disrupted pretty much everything. It was easier to remember that closer to it. Like the previous season of another show, Abbott Elementary, not the most recent one, but the one before. My fiance kept saying occasionally, like, what happened to this show? And I kept having to remind her, this is. This was created during the strike. This was during the strike. They probably threw these episodes together because they felt cobbled together. And hearing that said now really does ring a bell. The other thing that I'm questioning is you say we've got a two seasons to go. I would argue like a season and a half, let's say, if it's going to be 16 episodes left, I don't know that next season we see much. Kirk.
Matt Ferrell: Nope. You will. Oh, will we?
Sean Ferrell I tell you, I read this entire article.
Matt Ferrell: I was like, they talked. They did not give anything away about what's to come, but they talked about how Kirk and Spock's relationship is going to continue to be building. He's going to be on a bunch of the episodes.
Okay, so, like, they're going to be bringing him more and more into the series, so that's not the problem. Sean. They also talk about how Rebecca Romijn said there are challenges they give us that we never knew we wanted, and then we do it. Like, there's something in season four that I get to do. You guys will never guess what it is. But I did it. I was like, there's no way I can do this. There's no way. And then I did it. And I was like, yeah, I never knew I could do that challenge. It was so good. So they're clearly already filming this. They're already doing it.
Sean Ferrell Yeah. So they already are. There are things that were said about. In a different source. I read something about something they did and the expense of doing a thing, and I won't say what it was, but when I read that, I misinterpreted it as it was going to be this season, Season three. I did not know it was being spoken of about season four. And as a result, I went into this episode thinking that thing was going to happen in this episode, and then watched this episode and was just like, what happened to the thing? And then realized, oh, they're already filming. They're already. It's already under. It's underway. So it's like, yeah. So I also. That. That also then gives you and me this little tidbit. I don't think we're a year away from season four dropping.
Matt Ferrell: We are. That's the other thing that came out in this article is like, there's no date that's been delivered, but they said it's most likely going to be summer or fall of 26. So they're probably waiting. They're probably.
Sean Ferrell I guess it takes. That's a lot of special effects time. Probably. Yes. Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: Wow.
Sean Ferrell Just thinking really quickly about the rest of the episode. I feel like for me, just to kind of wrap up the general gist of everything, I do find myself wishing this had been three different episodes. But there was one thing here that I thought was. I mean, this is where sci fi writer Sean wishes he could climb through the television and knock on the door of the writer's room and just be like, hey, guys, what's going on? Can I ask a couple questions? Don't mean to intrude. Is that coffee? Is anybody eating this croissant? Because, you know, they drink coffee and they eat croissants. But I think there's an element of this episode that, as far as fan service goes, is a tremendous fix to one of the worst Next Gen episodes ever done. So there are. There is a moment in this episode that I think connects to two different episodes of Next Generation. And I have a feeling that this episode is a direct reference to at least one of them, potentially to two of them. But one is. Remember the episode where they go to the planet and the entire planet's been destroyed. But there's one little house with one little yard, and it's untouched.
Matt Ferrell: The old couple. Yep.
Sean Ferrell And it's the old couple. And it's got the great line from Worf of good tea, nice house. Like, he's trying to make small talk, but he's terrible at it. The revelation in that episode that the old man is an alien that has this tremendous power physically looked like what happens to Batel at the end of this episode. Similar physical traits. But ultimately, I think that this episode is a kind of fix to the episode the Chase. Do you remember the chase?
Matt Ferrell: Oh, is that the one where they. The whole God and how everybody comes back from the same thing?
Sean Ferrell Yes.
Matt Ferrell: Same species. Yeah. That's a horrible episode.
Sean Ferrell It's a horrible, horrible episode. It was directed by Jonathan Frakes. It was from the sixth season of Next Generation. And the gist of that episode is, how do we explain to our audience why all the aliens are played by humans? Effectively, that is the only explanation for that episode. It is a grossly silly episode to make, to explain, like, what are all these common traits between all the species and why are we all similar and why can we cross breed and like all that stuff. And it's just like, oh, it's because we all have some genetic marker that we didn't notice until this moment that's the same. And it must be, because we have progenitors who are in common, and they meet the gods that have planted seeds throughout the galaxy. I always laugh when I talk about this episode. Silly and pedestrian and more in line with something that you might have as one of the animated episodes as opposed to an episode of the Next Generation. This episode felt to me like it was tapping into that same vein, but doing it in a way that was like reclaiming a little bit of the mystery. Reclaiming a little bit of the. The universal truths might have some sort of common background without it being. And that common background is Bob, who is now here to tell us about how they planted seeds on all these different planets. The commonality of, what if this was the evil that spawned the idea of evil? What if this is the thing that, when it came into the galaxy, did things in such a way that it created the understanding of good versus evil that all these different cultures hold and that she was unlocking her evolution as a result of having had genetic manipulation done to her?
Matt Ferrell: Yep.
Sean Ferrell That tapped these things into a. Basically a trigger to evolve. And I'm like, that's a better story. That's a much better story. It's the same story. But it's a better told version of it. So I felt like this, that plot line, I was like, I think I'm gonna remember this when we watch the chase so that I can pretend that those aliens did everything that they're saying they did. Because there had been these crazy extra dimensional alien creatures that were so evil that this is how the galaxy effectively protected itself by planting those seeds of saying, like, commonality of experience. The background here at work is what will save us in the future. So like, yeah, I'm going to remember this episode when I watch the chase and I'm going to be like, thank you for fixing it for me.
Matt Ferrell: So, yeah, one last fan service piece that I liked. Yeah, Simple. Sam and Kirk, Sam and Jim.
Sean Ferrell I absolutely loved that moment.
Matt Ferrell: I was like, that's so cool to see because it's like they were so confrontational in the beginning of the show and now it's like they've put that behind them and they're just getting closer together and I love seeing that. Just the brother sitting down to have a drink together. It was very touching.
Sean Ferrell Yeah, I really liked it too. I liked that it didn't have any lines of dialogue. I liked that it was, it was the moment that for me was yet again like hearkening back to the original series episode where they show Jim find his brother dead. And there's the legitimate sorrow in that. And that moment of them having a drink did volumes it tied to that.
Matt Ferrell: So straight for me.
Sean Ferrell Just like, it's like it was a lovely moment. And also the two actors like, good casting. They did a good job. They did a good job of casting two actors to play brothers. And it's not all that often that you see adult actors playing siblings and you're like, wow, they really do look.
Matt Ferrell: Like they could be related.
Sean Ferrell They could be brothers. So yeah, good, good, good on the, the script writers and, and the producers and the actors to put that together so nicely. Such a small moment, but I agree with you. Really lovely one. So I'm going to invite people to jump into the comments, let us know how you felt about this episode. Do you agree with Matt that the fast forward button didn't feel deserved or useful or do you agree with me? The fast forward button was appreciated and fun and you had to pause it because you had to go into the bathroom and cry a little bit. Was there anything else about this episode? We've talked about a lot of different elements that went into a very, very full episode, so I encourage the commenters. What here stood out to you? As the piece that you said, like, yeah, this is great as it is. Or was there something that stood out as this felt like it didn't need to be here? Or was there something that you said, oh, this should have been all of the episode. There should have been more of this. Matt and I have landed on, I think all three of those in this episode, so I encourage all of you to jump in and share your thoughts on all of that. Now, usually this is the time where I encourage you to like, subscribe, share with your friends, because those are all very easy ways for you to support the guest. And that is all true, but we have additional content for you and as we know, it's all about the content. It's all about the content. So Matt shared with me yesterday news about something I had not heard about before. There is a new podcast that has dropped. It is Star Trek Khan and yes, it is exactly what you think about. It is going to be about. It is about the piloting console of the Starship Enterprise. No, it is not about that. It is not about the con. It is about the Khan. Khan Noonien Singh.
It is a prequel story to the events of Star Trek 2, but told from the context of post Star Trek Generations. Yes, in a neat twist, it is A historian wishes to go back to City Alpha 5 to reclaim historical records that have been there since the events of Star Trek ii. And Kirk has died just a little time before the podcast is taking place. So it is an interesting mix of effectively found footage, audio recordings, historical audio recordings of Khan and his followers as they have been now marooned on Ceti Alpha V, and the story of the historian who is working under the auspices of Captain Sulu, played by George Takei, who has taken her back to Ceti Alpha V and given her a protector and assistant in the form of Ensign Tuvok, played, yep, Clay, by Tim Russ, of course. Tim Russ reprising the role of Tuvok, but as Ensign Tuvok. And so it is the story of this historian's attempt to better understand the figure, the historical figure, and questioning whether or not the spokens and unspokens of Starfleet history are actually trustworthy. Yeah, and it is the investigation into what is Khan's background and what was life like for these augmented humans as they were trying to establish a new civilization on Ceti Alpha V. So Matt shared that with me. One episode I discovered was already released. I gobbled it up in the 45 minutes it took to listen to me too. And I have to say, it is well worth the listen, it is a terrific. I mean effectively we've gone back in time. It's a radio show, it's wonderful. I thought it was very well done. Its initial premise of these are audio tapes that are. Have been created historical records. Well, it doesn't really track because when you're listening to the stuff that's supposed to be in the deeper past, it is full blown scenes and conversations that like nobody would have recorded these moments. This doesn't make sense from a.
Oh, we found this audio tape and so we know this is what they said. It's a conceit. It is fine. It is a fine conceit because it is just to get you into the story. And once you're in the story, it is great. And for me, the standout here is the casting of Naveen Andrews as Khan. He is best known as Saeed from Lost. And here he is leaning into not only the role of Khan, who as an Indian himself. Andrews gave an interview where he said he appreciated the opportunity to play Khan who is supposed to be an Indian. So that opportunity for him was great. But he didn't want to do it without also leaning into the Montalban-ism of it. He's really playing homage to Ricardo Montalban and like it shows the depiction of this man as the. I have swagger on top of my swagger and everybody's just going to understand like you want to talk about BDE like this is BDE that could power a starship. Because the entire depiction of Khan is one of Nobody's going to question me because they're all going to know I'm the guy and the depiction resonates.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, that's actually something I want to call out. I don't want to give any of the plot away because go listen to it. It's worth a listen. But they play with our expectations of the Augments. And I will say the first third of it, I was kind of like it was subverting my expectations where I was kind of like, this doesn't feel like. Doesn't feel quite right. And I'm like, what are they doing with this? But by the end of the episode it's like, oh, I see what you're doing. Okay. I'm liking what you're laying down. This is fun. It's a really fun listen.
Sean Ferrell Yeah, they set up a really lovely, for lack of a better way of putting it, a power struggle within a power struggle. And the pieces that they've put on the board include the woman that is the romantic love Interest in the episode Space Seed. They even create fertile ground for storytelling there.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, they do.
Sean Ferrell And I didn't expect that. And I was just like, oh, holy cow. So you've got now a story within a story within a story, as all the different people are, for their own reasons, either getting in line or questioning the line. And the voice acting overall, I find very compelling, and they do a really great job. It's always lovely to discover people who are making a storytelling podcast who really get what. What has to go into it for the voice acting and all of that to really work, because you don't have the visuals to carry you. And I think that all of them are doing a terrific job. So I gobbled it up and then I sent Matt a message like, you've got to listen to this so we can talk about it. Because I encourage everybody. Check it out. Because, I mean, not for nothing, I think that we should listen to it and then keep it in the back of our minds when we eventually get to talking about Star Trek. Because I have a feeling this is going to be a very compelling story, that the entire intention here is to add information to the story of Khan to make that movie richer. Why is he dead set on Vengeance Against Kirk? So, yep, Star Trek Khan. It's a podcast. I found it on Spotify. I'm sure it's available on other platforms as well.
Matt Ferrell: It's everywhere.
Sean Ferrell Go out and look for it. Gobble it up. First episode's been released. I don't think Matt and I are going to revisit it throughout the next few weeks as we record more of these episodes. But again, I do think that this will come up in conversation when we talk about Star Trek ii, which is strangely closer than you would imagine because we're basically like in the last third of the original series, season two. Then we've got 25 or so episodes of season three. And then, ladies and gentlemen, we're hitting the movies.
Matt Ferrell: The movies.
Sean Ferrell Yeah. So it's going to be about half a year, and then we're going to be watching a movie a week. What's better than that? Sean's excited.
Matt Ferrell: I'm excited, too.
Sean Ferrell Yeah, it's gonna be fun. So that is to say, as always, liking subscribing, sharing with your friends, those are very easy ways for you to support the podcast. If you'd like to support us more directly, you can click the button. No, you can't. Never mind. If you want to support us more directly, you can go to StillTBD. Nope. If you want to support us directly. You can go to trekintime Show. Click the join button. It allows you to throw some coins at our heads. We appreciate the welts. And then we get down to the heavy, heavy business of it requiring four takes for me to do this closing. Thank you so much everybody for taking the time to watch or listen. We will talk to you next time.